Curse

Sir Baddock · Jun 18, 2009, 07:53 AM // 07:53

In all honestly I would have kicked you for using Capitals so much, that plus swearing and I would have basically told you to "stfu" and most likely kicked your Guild from the alliance.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jun 18, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Its a respect thing to not swear in alliance chat. For every single valid reason you can think of to be able to swear, another person has an equally valid reason why you should not swear.

The type of language we use both on and offline reflects our character/personality. Some people have an extensive vocabulary and are intelligent enough express themselves as such. Some people are a bit slower and less educated and must use swears to express themselves because using non-swears are not as satisfying or they simply can't think of a word to use because, well, they're kinda stupid. (like me, I'm kinda stupid in different ways though.

)

You also have a group of people who actually think its "cool" to swear. Then we have those of us who have a habit of swearing. Its just part of our daily vocab, although we can control it with easy. Some of us seem not to be able to though.

Its also a sign of maturity. Do you respect the people you play with enough to give in and not swear or do you refuse to give them this small respect and lash out in subtle ways to prove you are superior? Most of the adult gamers I play with don't swear that much but the younger players swear all the time along with talking about sex constantly. This is just part of growing up, kids act like kids and its not hard to tell who's who.

Mature player's are rarer than unsupervised children and disfunctional adults, which make up the majority of any online society. (gaming and forums included)

Besides respect, its common courtesy to be polite. Swearing isn't exactly polite.

Even when you want to say "Dude, You F'ing ROCK!" its still not polite to swear even when you are trying to express admiration for someone.

But sadly things like respect, common courtesy, manners and maturity are not priorities online. This is why we must choose carefully who we interact with. If someone bothers or offends us, we should just avoid them. Thats all we can do without sinking to their level. Why become a jerk when dealing with a jerk? Thats the wrong approach.

As for how you (The OP) handled the situation? My opinion is this. You joined a guild to see if they could measure up to your self appointed superior skill and knowledge of how guilds should work. You used profanity to bait someone into reacting exactly how they did so you could gain attention on the forums due to having too much time on your hands. You insulted the members of that guild whos views did not match your own, in ways everyone should see very clearly. You insulted the guild leader in a subtle way because he/she did not give you special treatment. No one else is allowed to swear on alliance chat, you deserve no special consideration.

So my opinion of you based on your actions is, you're a rude, guild jumping troll who needs others to stroke your inflated ego. You use a well known site in the screenshot to further gain attention and you make light of scamming. You also point and laugh at people who "make a big deal" out of something small and yet you do the exact same thing, only you take it a step further as I do not see a thread made by one of those guildmembers/alliance members ranting about rude, guild jumping trolls who need attention.

You are the majority, without a doubt. So they will agree with your behavior.

Lishy · Jun 18, 2009, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

You used profanity to bait someone into reacting exactly how they did so you could gain attention on the forums due to having too much time on your hands.

There are a lot of misconceptions with your post on the situation.
But I'm going to focus on the big one here:
I didn't use profanity to bait anyone into anything. I did, however, use the whole situation as an excuse to rant about swearing and guilds after I played along to see how far things would go.

MMSDome · Jun 18, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

I hope you get banned for posting these SS'.

But on a serious night I don't get why people can't use a filter.

upier · Jun 18, 2009, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

In my opinion, if you get mad about swearing on alliance chat, and haven't turned on the language filter, you can partake in a meal containing a bowl of our finest penises.

Either turn on the filter, or deal with it. Don't get pissy because you 'play the game in front of children'.

There is a language filter.
There is a language filter.
There is a language filter.
There is a language filter.
There is a language filter.

Get it yet?

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...sofconduct.php

Quote:

1.
While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. You will not report players maliciously, or cause them to be investigated without reason.

3.
You may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive language.

The filter does not negate your actions that potentially do not comply with the rules.
It just gives the other person an option of not having to endure them. But it also means that the other person does not need to suffer under your breach of the rules for the punishment to be applied - the breach itself is sufficient.

Players should not need to be forced to take certain actions so that other players can break the rules without them getting hurt. Players that are executing actions that are potentially harmful to others NEED to refrain from such actions.

The language filter isn't an excuse for you acting like a moron.
The language filter isn't an excuse for you acting like a moron.
The language filter isn't an excuse for you acting like a moron.
The language filter isn't an excuse for you acting like a moron.
The language filter isn't an excuse for you acting like a moron.

Get it yet?

Does this mean I am against acting like a moron?
No. It just means I know where to act like one.
Our guild has a lovely "say whatever the hell comes onto your mind"-rule. And the people who want to enter it are made aware of this rule. And if they do not agree with it - they can not join.
But I won't be shouting the stupid things I shout over the guild chat in Kaineng. I know that my guildies do not mind the stupid things I say, but when talking to other people I presume that they are bothered by them.

On topic of the first post:
In a battle of morons a moron will always win.
I wouldn't want to deal with either of you.

zwei2stein · Jun 18, 2009, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

There are a lot of misconceptions with your post on the situation.
But I'm going to focus on the big one here:
I didn't use profanity to bait anyone into anything. I did, however, use the whole situation as an excuse to rant about swearing and guilds after I played along to see how far things would go.

(actually read screenshots by now)

This is not rant about anti-swearing aliances.

This is rant about alliances that are for some reason unhappy with someone acting like typical 12-year-old with bonus of trolling for hell of it.

Avarre · Jun 18, 2009, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Reference. Look it up.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jun 18, 2009, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

There are a lot of misconceptions with your post on the situation.
But I'm going to focus on the big one here:
I didn't use profanity to bait anyone into anything. I did, however, use the whole situation as an excuse to rant about swearing and guilds after I played along to see how far things would go.

You probably knew ahead of time that swearing in Alliance chat was a no-no. Whether you did or not is impossible to know as there is no proof. But what leads me to believe you did indeed bait them into reacting is how you handled the situation and the level of mischievous joy you gained from it. I bet you were smiling while it was happening, while you typed out your opening post and while you read/responded to most of the replies.

Since your credibility is already in the tank due to your bad behavior, I can't believe you "just ran with it". You have only provided the community with another example of "premeditated trolling" and nothing more.

You should worry about other guilds less and focus more on your grammar and sentence structure. I have both A.D.D and Dyslexia and even I find your opening post embarrassing. You have also shown that you do not have the ability to differentiate between a player's social etiquette and a player's ability to learn and exploit metagame mechanics. So you really couldn't tell us if a guild is good or not, since you yourself don't actually know and are just forming personal opinion based on incorrect factors.

Having rules against profanity does not equal a bad guild.

Sjeng · Jun 18, 2009, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Kain, at the first screenshot, I was like: okay, you're really happy, that's obvious, good for you, but relax man. Some people took offense, asked you nicely to not swear. So you say: look, there's a filter. use it k?
So far so good. Then a guy whispers you that it's "cool" and you won't get kicked. I'm all for the chat filter argument.

But at that point you should have simply said something like: okay I'll take it easy on the A-chat, but I do feel that I shouldn't be reprimanded for swearing whe the game has a filter. And left it at that.

But you raged on and on, overreacting big time. That was what got you kicked man. Chill. It's just a game. People have different opinions. If you are in a guild you like, there are always differences of opinion. If you want to stay, you should adapt a bit, and respect other opinions, or you'll never stay in any guild long. Just relax and take a breath. count to 10. chill.

Our alliance basically has few rules, and all they say is that you should simply behave. Use common sense. If you want to swear, do it in team chat, whisper, or perhaps in guild chat if your guild is OK with it. Don't swear AT people. Don't insult people. No racism. No political discussions. No sexism. Same goes for character names. Just play nice. No scamming.

It's a game, thus should be played for fun. And as it's an online game with many people playing, you should try to respect others, and play nice. If something does happen, talk about it in private. Solve it like adults. Pretty straightforward rules and they work for us.

If someone can't handle that, they should play solo.

I agree though that people should clearly explain the rules, if any, on inviting memebrs. We have a forum for that, to which we point our new members. The whispers you got were also uncalled for.

oh PS: aren't you kinda ruining your reputation right now with the "to catch a bad guild" thing? No guild's likely to accept you after this man :S (unless they love to swear)
Go find a guild that swears a lot if that's a "good" guild in your opinion. You'll fit right in. (no flame intended, I'm being serious here).

Quote:

Originally Posted by False Maria

If the alliance has rules for no swearing and no caps then those are the rules. They aren't going to change for you, so it's you who is going to have to deal with it or leave.

You want your guild to be different? Then get a different guild.

False Maria kinda said what I mean in a lot less words lol.

Silverhand and Upier have some good points too though, sorry Kain.

the_jos · Jun 18, 2009, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Been in many such alliances myself. One had a rule saying 'no more than 3 recruitment messages for making a group', yet officers in the leading guild would continuously spam alliance chat looking for more ursan players with many more than 10 messages. Then everysingle thing that normal members tried to discuss was heavilly policed to the point where we were threatened with being kicked if we didnt STFU and stop typing, eventually I got kicked for starting off a 'GW Sux WoW rules' argument as well as opposing the continuous formation of UB groups for everysingle thing in that alliance, not just elite areas but also missions and vanquishes. Oh, I never even had to use profanity, they just hated any discussion in alliance chat that was heated and more than 3 or 4 comments long.
Yes ok, it is their rules, but comeon, like, no discussion allowed at all without being told off even without swearing? They actually went as far as to ban talking about ursan blessing or wow.

Basically, said alliance had a blacklist to immediately remove anyone they didnt like and not to let them back in. Was called Snow.

Oh, there is more to that story, Bhavv.

Things were messy for a while in AC already. And you were just putting some fuel to the flames.
I don't mind people doing that once in a while, but you made the mistake of repeatingly doing that and not backing off when Smurf got online and started raging at Nym. You jumped right in.
Since Heidi promoted Smurf to officer (he was kicked for long inactivity, guild rule) there was no-one to take action and LotU was kicked from the alliance.

A few weeks before that I received several e-mails and messages at work from people that things were getting out of control.
I don't mind spending some time on GW, but I like do keep my gaming and work seperated!

In the months before this event I had several chats in public (on SNOW's forum) and private with Erdos, Nym and various other leaders in the alliance on how to deal with certain language and the 'no selling/pc rules'.
I still understand their reasoning, several people got scammed and the no-cursing rule came because of a former alliance guild (think they were somewhat christian US players). We had some chats on the Ursan-craze that was going on and bringing in too many unskilled players.

Things you might have missed that happened before was a good guild leaving because their leader was seriously offended (Uber, from Agro as far as I can recall) in AC. And Scabite and Rol being disrespectful to Erdos from time to time. So there was good reason to pay additional attention to AC.
And there were several other incidents in AC the months before, I still have some interesting screenshots in my mail and on my pc....

Besides that, the alliance just became too large (partly Erdos' mistake I guess).
I've seen the same happen with another alliance we joined later, the same shit players who were causing trouble in the SNOW alliance where popping up there. Guess which alliance doesn't exist anymore today...

And now we get to you. When the founder of the leading alliance guild asks you to shut up, you should do. You didn't. You kept throwing fuel on the argument. You and Smurf were the only two players in my guilds ever kicked to no return in an alliance on request of others. Even Scabite didn't get a perma-ban from SNOW and he used some seriously abusive language once in a while on AC. Or Rol, who was in a constant struggle with Erdos and said some nasty things to him in whisp (less in AC).
So it wasn't all about the AC rules. It had to do with your general behaviour on AC.
Not only during that incident, people already knew that you liked to keep arguments going even when others asked to stop.
I had a long chat with Nym on what happened and if we would stay or not and under what conditions. But You and Smurf just screwed up.

To give some of my role: I had to make a choice between a nice player (I still think you are, Bhavv) and an alliance which still had potential. We were already talking about cleaning up, something that happened a couple of months later when SNOW consolicated the best players in Mirror and dropped the rest (of which many moved to that other alliance....). We had already left SNOW by then, same for some other very good guilds.

It's a shame that things went this way, SNOW had a nice alliance for a long time and I've played with some of the best PvE players in the game. Things go up and down everywhere.
And given where they are now I think they are still doing very well, though I don't like how they converted to the dark side.

Grj · Jun 18, 2009, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

You've somehow managed to write exactly what I was trying to say.

Everyone should read this post. If you still think swearing is an issue, turn on the filter. If, you don't have children, and are offended by language. Here's a reality check.

You are playing a video game, and are concerned about language. Find a better hobby. TURN ON THE DAMN FILTER ALREADY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

You're forgetting that Guild Wars is full of idiots, and common sense does not work with idiots.

And False Maria. Some guilds have stupid rules that you may not agree with, but they aren't going to change for you. Same with real life. There are some very retarded laws in our world, but we have to follow them regardless.

I agree the some people like the people in the op's guild are idiot's to expect everyone to have a certain level of maturity and decency

Are people really this dense? Of course i'll agree if you don't like seeing these types of words then by all means use the word filter but usually the following happens: Not all words get censored and immature people thinks its funny to try and bypass said filter.

Now take this situation, i turn on the word filter and i constantly see blocked/censored words appearing in chat.

Now the large amount of times someone would see this, its completely unnecessary to be using the language in said context. Now other people in the guild see this chat uncensored/censored it doesn't matter and request the person stop using that type of language.

Person using said language responds with something along the following: OMFG TURN ON THE F**KING WORD FILTER, F**KING NOOBS!!!!!!1111

Now the person displays another low of maturity and can't handle a simple request of toning down the language, now think, yep thats the kind of people i want in my guild.

Now the person gets kicked or rage quits and the next thing he does is shout about to his friends or on this forum about how he's just left some "noob" guild when in alot of cases the person really needs to look in a mirror.

Isn't it common sense to kick these people with these types of attitudes?

Also don't cry on the forums when you've been banned in game for using this type of language, the word filter does not give you a right to justify that type of language.

Edit: Now this thread shows everything really you need to know about the OP's attitude: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10372549

Medion · Jun 18, 2009, 09:06 AM // 09:06

You weren't kicked for swearing (I assume the "It's cool dude, just don't say RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO in alliance" came from your guild leader).
The only remark the alliance members made was that they asked you not to swear. How hard is that?

If you're new to a guild, you don't start off questioning their rules. You don't call alliance members retards. To do that, you first need to have been in that guild for a while and have actually deserved the 'right' and the knowledge to do that.

EDIT: you also missed the guild tag in your alliance chat on the top of first screen, should you care about it.

Gli · Jun 18, 2009, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Reference. Look it up.

I generally don't look up references made by people who have up to that point posted a threadful of what I consider to be 100% crap. It's a sure path to disappointment that I tend to avoid.

garethporlest18 · Jun 18, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Baddock

In all honestly I would have kicked you for using Capitals so much, that plus swearing and I would have basically told you to "stfu" and most likely kicked your Guild from the alliance.

You would kick for caps and a swear word, but you'll go and say stfu??

LOL WOO. That's ironic.

Anyways dude, it comes down to the rules of the guild. That's about it. No reason to create drama, although I would have done the same thing, I don't like being censored. I'm in a guild now though, with all friends, and I can swear to my hearts content, offend, racial slur, be a complete ass and no one gives a damn. Well besides attacking the members personally which I wouldn't do (aside from joking) because they are my friends.

Raven Killoran · Jun 18, 2009, 09:38 AM // 09:38

nothing wrong with with cursing when your annoyed at something, or happy about doing somthing its just a way of expresing strong emotion about somthing. if your constantly cursing thats just pathetic.. and 2 all those ppl who let there kids play and dont turn the chat filter on, thats your own damn fault learn 2 be a better parent and turn the filter on, specialy when your kids shouldent be playing the game anyway (if thers less than 12).

Archress Shayleigh · Jun 18, 2009, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Make ur own guild with friends. The guild i am in is no pr0ub3rg0su1337h4xx0rz awesome high-end PvX guild. It's a nice guild where we are all friends. BUT if there is a rule about swearing in the guilds u join- u should respect it.

beatdownbob · Jun 18, 2009, 09:40 AM // 09:40

I've struggled with Guilds in general. It's a free-to-play game. It's therefore marketed to the children, the jobless and anybody else who can tolerate them.

In the last year I've tried, really tried, to tolerate the general community as found and tried to get into some alliances, and what I found disgusted me more than I could be bothered with. Each one I've tried has had their own unique level of utter pathetic to be proud of.

[Dictatorial Self Affirmation Guilds]
A guy who buys 48 accounts to control 48 Guilds in several large alliances, and fill them with like minded dedicated robots.
Seemed perfect. A load of good rules about conduct, separation of children from adults in different alliances, a really long interview to get in, seemed perfect.
Try answering something on their forum and let me know how that works out for you. The head guy does not seem to like people who are prepared to express an opinion, and he's got a lot of sycophants in their with him.

Reminds me of a library. It's got everything you need as long as you keep your mouth shut. Or a new relationship... express no opinions until your slippers are under the table, or it's over.

[Large guilds that accept any newbie in any town with no pre-requisites]
Watch in horror as they kick a guy who replied "your mom" to somebody while at the same time a guy was telling racist jokes and replaced the n word with "obama" and somehow this not only made it right, but made it even funnier.

Yep, just quit without a word. I've tried talking to such people before, and never been able to determine if they are Republican, 13 years old, racist or a any combination of it.

[Any Speed Clear Guild]
Turns out that this sort of thing really isn't for me. If you actually expect 100% perfection 100% of the time, write a macro. I've yet to find a Guild type that engenders a greater magnitude and swiftly brought about level of QQing. I'd say it's pathetic, but if I was under false pressure to maintain control of Cavalon I'd probably be a stressed out timebomb too. But that is exactly why I don't struggle to control outposts.

[PvP Guilds]
Not looked at these. When Factions was released I quit PvP. No I don't want your opinion on how great PvP is now. But back in those days PvP guilds came in two flavours. Successful and unsuccessful, and they tended to only last as long as the success did, any member who didn't measure up was removed and pretty much the only consideration was whether he could follow orders, give orders or show initiative in the absence of orders. I doubt this changed.

Gli · Jun 18, 2009, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grj

Isn't it common sense to kick these people with these types of attitudes?

That's really what it all boils down to.

One of the functions of guilds/alliances is to group up with like-minded people. If someone turns out to be not so like-minded and worse, even turns out to be a belligerent little troll about it, he doesn't belong and he deserves a kick.

Doing that doesn't make it a bad guild, it makes makes it a guild that seems to know what it wants. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the kind of people who uphold any kind of rules or standards, they're 100% justified to remove people who don't fit their community.

Cracko · Jun 18, 2009, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Why is everyone acting like a (excuse my language) bitch? Why is there need for an etiquette in a game of joy, why would you be offended by the word "f*ck" it does not make any sense.

The topic starter is happy because he just got a weapon drop or something, I don't know but be happy for him, why do you have to fall over a simple "f*ck", which resulted in a leave?

Darth Durgason · Jun 18, 2009, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Prepared a long post but sjeng and medion pretty much summed it up so no point there but to say i agree with them

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

That's really what it all boils down to.

One of the functions of guilds/alliances is to group up with like-minded people. If someone turns out to be not so like-minded and worse, even turns to be belligerent little troll about it, he doesn't belong and he deserves a kick.

Doing that doesn't make a it bad guild, it makes makes it a guild that seems to know what it wants. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the kind of people who uphold any kind of rules or standards, they're 100% justified to remove people who don't fit their community.

one thing that got me is the cussing he got afterwards, and probably what made kain post this. (if you look at screens he scrolled up quite a bit to take them). If you got rules about bad language, nobody should be doing that either as it is hypocritism at highest level. For the rest i agree with you.